I am a soldier, not a judge.
Published on May 3, 2004 By greywar In Current Events



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            The recent probe into allegations of torture and mistreatment against P.O.W.s has stirred up a massive hornets nest. As a member of the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy some of my readers might expect me to attempt to spin or damage control this. I refuse.


            For most of our nations history there has been a concerted in not always successful effort made on the part of our Government as an extension of our society to fight wars as humanely as possible. There have been monumental failures of course so don’t bother citing them to me again.


            The point is that for the most part the US has had a reputation for adhering to the tenets of the Geneva Conventions, not allowing torture, and the extensive use of rewards rather than coercion to elicit information from P.O.W.s. This campaign was so successful overall that in the first Gulf War there were mass quantities of surrenders from opposing forces simply because they knew from reputation that we would likely treat them better as prisoners than they were being treated as soldiers.


            If you asked any soldier in the world the question, “If you became a P.O.W. which country would be the best to be held by?”, the vast majority of responses would be the USA. Contrast this with the behavior demonstrated towards P.O.W.s over the years by countless other nations and you had the foundation for a real effective combat multiplier. Surrender is 20 times more effective than killing or wounding. Instead of making mortal enemies of the fallen combatants family and friends you immediately made a friend out of the soldier and upon repatriation he was very likely to spread the word and convert others.


 


            These moronic, barbaric, degenerate jailers have just shot that straight to hell.


 


            That’s right, with the ease and efficiency only possible to those who can not see any consequences for their own actions these soldiers managed to undo the arduous work of over 200 years. They have ensured that there will be much more doubt in an opposing soldiers mind as to whether he will be treated well if he lays down his arms or whether it is worth it to hang on another day as a combatant. Let me be clear, these soldiers are committing fratricide by proxy. From now on every time an enemy soldier fires his weapon instead of surrendering as a result of their action and kills a US soldier some of that blood is on these jailers hands. Their punishment must be swift, harsh, and public.


            There are no extenuating circumstances possible in this scenario… none. Once an enemy solder is removed from battle and ceases to be a combatant, a soldier loses all rights to judgment or punishment for that prisoner. From that moment on he is to be protected not punished. If the prisoner has killed hundreds of our troops and then surrendered…. No jailer punishment…. If he raped 20 soldiers before being captured…. No punishment from soldiers….. Again to be clear, we as soldiers are organs of the Executive Branch, not the Judicial. We have no powers of judgment off the battlefield. If a prisoner has committed crimes that are known then he will be punished by wartime judiciary powers et up for that purpose. He will not be adjudicated by PVT Snuffy.


            These soldiers must receive the full force of punishment for this offense. We can not become the barbarians we fight to keep from our gates. If this behavior continues then the Fifth Column has already won and the War is lost.




Comments (Page 1)
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on May 03, 2004
It appears that the HTML converter is not working quite as well as usual so the Answer Man article will just have to wait until tomorrow.
on May 03, 2004

As always, 5 minutes after I write something I find that Victor Davis Hanson has already said better than I ever could have. http://www.benadorassociates.com/article/3955

on May 03, 2004
You are exactly right.
on May 03, 2004
sigh... and now even the comments are hosed up... There must be some sort of fishy maintenance going on methinks...
on May 03, 2004

Sounds right to me.

Good article.

on May 03, 2004
OK...I was going to write a whole blog on this topic, but you've managed the perfect set up for my remarks.

You are absolutely right that these "moronic, barbaric, degenerate jailers" are committing fratricide by proxy. But I believe it is even worse than that. By engaging in immoral, illegal, and dishonourable behaviour towards the prisoners they are charged with housing, they have aided and given comfort to the insurgents in Iraq. They have done this by giving the insurgents' cause the badge of justice.

When we Americans are GOOD in our actions and our enemies are EVIL, then we have the strength of righteousness. But these jailers have given that up on behalf of all of us, at least as far as our enemies are concerned. Our enemies in Iraq now have "righteousness" on their side, and a banner 'round which to rally.

There is one way, and I believe one way only to repair the damage that has been done. The jailers need to be quickly, ie within a few days, convicted of treason and taken to the front gates of Falujah, and publicly shot. This action on our part will save the lives of many soldiers, and will cement in the minds of Iraqis that our standards are not double. We will win the hearts and minds of our enemies, who will know for sure that America has honour, and morality. Honour is not cheap, but if we allow these jailers to be incarcerated back in the states, what will that mean to Iraqis? It will mean that America has no honour. And that gives our enemies comfort, that their cause is right.

on May 03, 2004
I literally said "amen" out loud when I read this. If we lose moral ground, we've lost everything.

~Buddha
on May 04, 2004
According to the news I have read in the online New York Times, so far the punishments are very mild. Here is a quote: B]: " The senior American commander in Iraq has ordered the first punishments in the abuse of prisoners by American soldiers there, issuing severe reprimands to six who served in supervisory positions at Abu Ghraib prison and a milder "letter of admonishment" to a seventh."
on May 04, 2004
If we lose moral ground


I dont want to be provocative here... but as far as I am concerned... you never had it...

I know you are against these tortures etc. but those American tropps should have never been in Iraq... When this news speads across the Arab world, it's time to be afraid... there is nothing to lose.

BAM!!!
on May 04, 2004
You're fucking retarded. And I dont even think that I have to explain why.
on May 04, 2004
Good article, greywar. Thank you for writing it.

Muggaz raises an interesting point in how the rest of the world perceived the war in Iraq, but America lost moral high ground internally. We are going to judge ourselves and our leaders on how we handle this.

Estrogen Lass' comment is so poorly written I am not even sure who her critique was aimed at. but in the event that it was toward Muggaz, be aware that the rest of the world is watching us. America is perceived differently abroad than at home. You may not like it, you may say that it is irrelevant, but those perceptions exist.
on May 04, 2004

The senior American commander in Iraq has ordered the first punishments in the abuse of prisoners by American soldiers there, issuing severe reprimands to six who served in supervisory positions at Abu Ghraib prison and a milder "letter of admonishment" to a seventh."

the Letters of Reprimand are simply the very first thing to be doen to these folks not the last. The military system is not like the civilian. We can receive multiple punishments for the same offense. L.O.R.'s are standard practice as the first step in *any* serious offense.

 

Larry - her remark was directed at muggaz I beleive.

 

Muggaz - I appreciate your thoughts but please try and stay within the scope of the original post? If you want to discuss the "legality" of the war in Iraq please write a blog about it.

on May 04, 2004
Like that's the first ever abuse of POWs. Gimme a break, what they did was nothing compared to some other atrocities performed on POWs that the world has seen (or heard of) and conviniently forgotten. To the victors go the spoils. The only differrence now is that the media is involved and has tons of cash to throw around for pictures like that. You cry foul at some mild psychological torture, yet the bodycount mounts, the terrorists keep on blowing things up and the world keeps turning. It's a war people, the lines get blurred. Move on.
on May 04, 2004

OK...I was going to write a whole blog on this topic, but you've managed the perfect set up for my remarks.

Arquonzo - well you better write somethign there as I just added you and Pseudoto the blogroll... ha the blog is on the other foot now! umm err whatever...

Mack - Thanks for the comment but I think you missed the point of the article entirely.

on May 04, 2004
Mack - Thanks for the comment but I think you missed the point of the article entirely.


I got the point of the article, it's just that having heard and read about this issue so many times lately, to me it's really just beating the dead horse and I hardly think the soldiers' actions were as horrific as most people make them out to be. I doubt they will have long-term reprecussions either, if put to rest. Sorry, I'll refrain from off-topic comments in the future
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