I am a soldier, not a judge.
Published on May 3, 2004 By greywar In Current Events



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            The recent probe into allegations of torture and mistreatment against P.O.W.s has stirred up a massive hornets nest. As a member of the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy some of my readers might expect me to attempt to spin or damage control this. I refuse.


            For most of our nations history there has been a concerted in not always successful effort made on the part of our Government as an extension of our society to fight wars as humanely as possible. There have been monumental failures of course so don’t bother citing them to me again.


            The point is that for the most part the US has had a reputation for adhering to the tenets of the Geneva Conventions, not allowing torture, and the extensive use of rewards rather than coercion to elicit information from P.O.W.s. This campaign was so successful overall that in the first Gulf War there were mass quantities of surrenders from opposing forces simply because they knew from reputation that we would likely treat them better as prisoners than they were being treated as soldiers.


            If you asked any soldier in the world the question, “If you became a P.O.W. which country would be the best to be held by?”, the vast majority of responses would be the USA. Contrast this with the behavior demonstrated towards P.O.W.s over the years by countless other nations and you had the foundation for a real effective combat multiplier. Surrender is 20 times more effective than killing or wounding. Instead of making mortal enemies of the fallen combatants family and friends you immediately made a friend out of the soldier and upon repatriation he was very likely to spread the word and convert others.


 


            These moronic, barbaric, degenerate jailers have just shot that straight to hell.


 


            That’s right, with the ease and efficiency only possible to those who can not see any consequences for their own actions these soldiers managed to undo the arduous work of over 200 years. They have ensured that there will be much more doubt in an opposing soldiers mind as to whether he will be treated well if he lays down his arms or whether it is worth it to hang on another day as a combatant. Let me be clear, these soldiers are committing fratricide by proxy. From now on every time an enemy soldier fires his weapon instead of surrendering as a result of their action and kills a US soldier some of that blood is on these jailers hands. Their punishment must be swift, harsh, and public.


            There are no extenuating circumstances possible in this scenario… none. Once an enemy solder is removed from battle and ceases to be a combatant, a soldier loses all rights to judgment or punishment for that prisoner. From that moment on he is to be protected not punished. If the prisoner has killed hundreds of our troops and then surrendered…. No jailer punishment…. If he raped 20 soldiers before being captured…. No punishment from soldiers….. Again to be clear, we as soldiers are organs of the Executive Branch, not the Judicial. We have no powers of judgment off the battlefield. If a prisoner has committed crimes that are known then he will be punished by wartime judiciary powers et up for that purpose. He will not be adjudicated by PVT Snuffy.


            These soldiers must receive the full force of punishment for this offense. We can not become the barbarians we fight to keep from our gates. If this behavior continues then the Fifth Column has already won and the War is lost.




Comments (Page 2)
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on May 04, 2004
Mack - Ah now I have a better grasp on your thoughts concernign this issue. I did wait a bit too long to write this article but I did not want to spam Draginol's "Jumping to conclusions in Iraq" article with this whole mess as one long comment.
on May 04, 2004
Hey, thanks for addressing this issue. I was wondering what your take was on the subject especially now the "media blame" is shifting from the soldiers in question to Military Intelligence.

Good article!
on May 04, 2004
MACK/NGE... you may call it mild psychological torture, but there are alot of people who would choose death over being forced to mimic homosexual behavior.
on May 04, 2004
Good point, Arquonzo. Link

mentions some of the torture, and I had read another article recently (lost link) where the exact thing you described was said by an Arab. Notice, too, that it's not just the homosexual behavior (although I'm sure that weighs in), but also that they were being forced to do these things by women, who also witnessed them doing these immoral acts and saw them naked. Big psychological impact.

But back on Greywar's topic: it's so obvious to me that he's correct about what *must* be done in order extricate our nation from this problem. I only hope that the military leadership will actually stay the course and do "the hard right" of punishing our soldiers. Many people want to support the soldiers so badly that they seem to excuse the soldiers' actions, at least in part. I'm all for supporting our soldiers (obv. duh, right?) but accountability for one's actions and the actions of the troops under you can't be avoided.
on May 08, 2004
"Our enemies in Iraq now have "righteousness" on their side, and a banner 'round which to rally."

Now? Dingbat these people have always felt they have righteousness on their side. They bomb innocent men, women and children in the name of their rightiousness and feel nothing but good. To me this is all about psychological warfare... How often do you see American soldiers being paraded on tv, beaten and abused? American dead bodies dragged down the street, hung from bridges. Good God do you think their intellectuals turn on those few guilty ones and put a stop to it? Hell no their banners call for more killing in the name of their God. If you think niceness is going to get these people to lay down their arms you are sadly mistaken.

What about the moral of our fighting force? All we ever see on television is our soldiers being killed and dragged down some street. HELLO PEOPLE, we can LOSE this war, you do realize that right? Surely you don't think because we are the U.S. that our niceness will some how keep us strong as a nation forever? The problem is they have no fear of us, they know we will treat them nice so why worry if we drag an American soldiers body down the street while the body parts rip from the torso... they already believe America is weak, otherwise you would not see American bodies swinging from bridges.

Now the image of a FEMALE AMERICAN SOLDIER handling a male prisoner on a leash will give them something to think about... Let me say this, the state of the muslim world today has more than any other time in my life made me want to join some Neo-Nazi organization. I for one am damned tired of being pushed around by a bunch of camel jockey's with guns.

I question whether GreyWar is truly a soldier. You seem more likely to be a Peace Activist. Just my opinion....

Sign me sick and tired of being abused and ready to abuse!!!!!!!
on May 08, 2004
At long last, an unambiguous article about this subject. Well put, Greywar.
on May 08, 2004
Greywar, I started to write an article about this the other day, but as my time was limited I was unable to finish. I am glad that you wrote it and did so as elaboratly and informative as you did. There are many ideas and truths here that it does become hard to stick to one belief or another. I myself had a few differances, such being...

joeandsue74 -


Very much of this response is true! Yes, the Geneva Conventions states spacific war "rules", but since when have other countries followed these "laws" to a tee. Where are all the pictures that we are not seeing of Americans being tortured inhumanly? Just becouse American soldiers got caught with their hands in the cookie jar, does that mean that our soldiers are not being equally tortured? Think for just a moment, Viet Nam, is everyone forgetting the hianous torture that was bestoed upon our POW's and MIA's? Not discluding other wars, but come on, American soldiers have been subjected to such inhumaine tortue that only a extremely twisted mind could have even come up with the ideas of some of these procedures. Over the years, the offenders of sudh herrendous acts, still have never been punished!!

Another thought. September 911 and other incidences should have taught us something. The soldiers in Iraq and surrounding areas, have been trained solely to "DIE" for their cause. So if these pictures are circulating and causing a ruccess here, is it really mattering there? Just amunition to use against the Americans because they are such "fools", (quoted from a Iranian cook at a nearby resturaunt). Those soldiers that were treated in this manner are seen as heroes, or better off dead. They served their purpose and that is that (again a qoute form a "fellow" Iranian). I am not saying that this is right, but, it is true and they way of war. As they say, "all is fair in love & war". So the laws of the Geneva Convention have been tested and bent, this is NOT new.
A couple of years back I was working at a resteraunt where I was amoung only two Americans. I found myself arguing with two of the Iranian workers on a regular basis. Why? Because they made it clear they completly hate Americans. Example of one such fight; there was a case going on here in Ohio where the brothers of a girl beat and killed their sister because she was dating a "white American". The cook (the owners cousin) said that the brothers should not have to go to jail becouse they did what they would do in "their" country and what they did was rightous. As I tried to explain to him that they are not in their country, there are laws here that call that murder. Blah blah blah, as it heated and went on, he was more than happy to let me know that his people are here to use our system, get what they can, will go back to their country stronger, richer and with more knowledge of Americans immoralistic ways which will one day be used against us. That America & it's government was so foolish that they believe thay are the greatest nation and the strongest, but we will see. That they do not care about consequences, only that their cause was embraced across the world and lived by. This went on often enough that when I walked away from that job, I was very clear on the thoughts of most individuals from that country. It was very clearly brought to my attention numberous times, that "their family is bigger then I could imagine and whatever family I thought I had, was nothing compared to their capabilities."
It has been made appearent to me that the fighters of Iraq would endure, dish out, and enjoy whatever needed to ensure the humiliation of the American people. They have a complete distaste for America and it's people. As I said, I didn't say that you don't have many valid points GreyWar, but, there is also another area that HAS to be looked at and grasped. You are a great writer and I think that you could add another article with this other side of it in a well informed, worded and interesting way. Think about it.
on May 08, 2004

Now? Dingbat these people have always felt they have righteousness on their side.


I am less concerned by their banner of righteousness than I am with the diminshment of ours. As for the rest of your post.... meh...

on May 08, 2004
That's a good article greywar, I agree with your view and I think a lot of people should understand that this is how most Americans feel and should not let this guide how they feel towards our people.

I am less concerned by their banner of righteousness than I am with the diminshment of ours.


My thoughts exactly, we should set an example for the treatment of POW's and these soldiers have tarnished that somewhat.
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