Pointing Out Threats = Fearmongering?

Don't point to that danger! You are fearmongering!

Published on January 9, 2007 By greywar In Politics

I wonder if sheepherders in Anatolia ever had to deal with being accused of fearmongering against wolves?

Grey the Shepherd "Hey Bobby! That Wolf is getting real close to your sheep! Looks mighty hungry too!"

Bobby the P.C. Shepherd : "Shut up Grey, you're just rascist against Wolves! Most Wolves don't kill sheep, they just live peacfully in the forest in harmony with nature! I've had enough of your fearmongering ways. Its not enough for you that Moderate Wolves live in peace, you wan them to condemn being a Wolf!"

Grey : "Heck I'd just like to see the Wolves say that killing sheep is wrong and that the Wolves who do should be condemned."

Bobby : "Racism! Fearmonger!"

Grey : "Sigh..."

I suppose linking to this article from The People.uk is also rascist fearmongering but here it is anyways (emphasis mine):

"A FRESH wave of British-born extremist Muslim clerics is whipping up hatred against their own country on the internet.

These men - who dream of seeing the black flag of Islam flying over 10 Downing Street - were filmed spouting vile messages of fanaticism and violence in sermons in mosques and community centres in Britain.

...

The anti-British or pro-terrorist rants are often mixed in with talks about legitimate Islamic topics.

...

A young cleric called ABU MUWAHID, who appears frequently in clips, lavishes praise on the 9/11 attackers in a talk about prayer.

He says the "fantastic, fabulous, magnificent - whatever word you prefer, whatever word suits you, but any word of praise - soldiers destroyed the two idols of today." (I prefer the words "dead" and "terrorist"- GW)

...

He brands Muslims who are not prepared to fight as hypocrites who will go to hell. "They have no intention to conquer...or to bring the black flag over 10 Downing Street," says Muwahid. (I told you Moderates that you are next on their list - GW)

...

"We do not like non-Muslims. We are required not to like them because they reject Allah and his messengers."

...

To cheers from his audience, he promises: "One day the black flag of Islam is going to be over 10 Downing Street, whether Tony Blair likes it or not."

It is terrible of me to point things like this out put since the organization who spoke out for the Flying Imams (CAIR) can't seem to actually condemn terror organizations I don't feel too bad about it.

Moderate Muslims : You don't have to denounce Islam, but denouncing terror and killing (even if the people killed are Jews) is a pretty basic requirement if you want anyone but the ACLU to take you seriously. Even Barbara Boxer gets that part.

Additionally it seems that I am not supposed to point out stories regarding Muslims unless I am pointing out stories about people of other religions committing acts of terror as well. Please post any links you have of current news involving people of other religions: decrying the need to "raise the flag" of their religion over nations, establishing "states with a state", flying planes into buildings, bombing subways, or strapping bombs to themselves and blowing up buses and cafes.

I already know the KKK does the first two and I condemn them roundly, wholeheartedly, and think them revolting criminals. Ditto for morons who blow up abortion clinics and shoot at physicians. Follow up with others and I will discuss them even though they have already been thoroughly ostracized from their respective community support networks in a very satisfying Hobbesian/Lockean action.

Please refrain from anything more than a few years old. I must be missing the current string of terror attacks from Buddists, Confucians, Shintoists, Wiccans, and Christians (yes I have heard of the Crusades, keep it in the current century at least if not the last decade).

Comments (Page 3)

bakerstreet

on Jan 09, 2007

"while the occasional loon is bound to pop up every once in awhile, even the "haters" aren't buying the paradise & 72 virgin argument. "

Evidently Christians can put fertilizer bombs together on their own, but America Muslims couldn't figure out how to use boxcutters. They can't even really comprehend that Islam is hateful unless they go to these other nations or listen to grewar.

Granted, one MIGHT come to the conclusion that the real problem comes from these places they go to learn to wield the boxcutters... but no, it must be Islam, right? It boggles the mind...

Sean Conners aka SConn1

on Jan 09, 2007

I guess that is "pooh-poohing" if you disagree with me then?

what i disagree with is the acting as-if they don't count in this debate. just saying you condemn em but no one else can bring em up is silly. factis that those terrorist attacks are recent (within the last decade) and were carried out by people believing it was "for God." which is exactly what you are saying no one in this country does. your premise is false and can only be made "legit" by taking those very real terrorist attacks out of the mix. at least that's the way i read it.

i think you make some decent points in your article, but there are some holes as well...it overreaches and unfairly discounts very real things.

and again, what about the mafia, who uses the catholic church and has infiltrated our government at many levels? are theey not a terrorist organization that this country has coddled and harbored. how many neighborhoods actively defend mafia guys because of their "protection" and "generosity" and their commonality with their heritage and religion?

Sean Conners aka SConn1

on Jan 09, 2007

but America Muslims couldn't figure out how to use boxcutters.

or maybe they couldn't figure out how to use that ummmm ,,,that series of tubes,,,,ummmmm,,,what's it called? oh yeah,,,the internets to order their tickets online...lol

pseudosoldier

on Jan 09, 2007

Keep trying. You might find one or two crazies, but so far you're bust. If Islam was the problem, you wouldn't NEED to have these ties overseas. They'd have their militias here just like wacko racist Christians do.

You said this in response to Dr. Guy's statement, which was in response to your:

Don't you find it odd that something that was so easily done NEEDED foreigners. We have millions of Muslims here. If Islam is what you claim it to be, you don't think you could have gotten a handful of people together in the DECADES before?

He was able to at least pick out a "handful of people," right? I think he addressed your statement fairly well.

bakerstreet

on Jan 09, 2007

"He was able to at least pick out a "handful of people," right? I think he addressed your statement fairly well."

Did he? I don't see any there that aren't tied directly to Afghanistan or other Middle Eastern terrorists. If Islam is what you guys say it is, where are the AMERICAN Islamic terrorists? Why don't we have any HOME GROWN ones? Why doesn't the religion breed them HERE?

Show me Islamic terrorists that haven't been connected to the Middle East of Afghanistan, please. If Islam is the problem, you don't NEED these ties. If Islam is the problem, you'd have hateful terroristic behavior everywhere there is Islam. There have been Muslims in American in large numbers for decades, having kids, going to mosque...

So, where are our Muslim terrorists? We have MILLIONS of Muslims in the US. Why haven't we seen any home grown terrorism if Islam is the problem? Use the rules above and find me American Muslim terrorists who've committed an attack in the same time period.

greywar

on Jan 09, 2007

Did he? I don't see any there that aren't tied directly to Afghanistan or other Middle Eastern terrorists.

So theyonly qualify if they are Americans completely isolated from the rest of the Islamic world?

bakerstreet

on Jan 09, 2007

Not the Islamic world, but the Wahhabi and Lebanese terrorist traditions. If Islam is the problem, WHY is contact with thise organizations necessary? Why doesn't terrorism spring up alongside Islam, instead of being imported from these particular places?

If it is about Islam, you don't NEED Afghanistan, right? If Islam is to blame, and obviously we have had American-born Muslims for decades, we should be seeing our own organizations here in America. Why do Christians know how to make truck bombs, but Muslims have to go to Afghanistan?

Oddly, without direct contact with the Middle East, you don't have Islamic terrorism. Is it really Islam, then? Show me the spontaneous eruption of Islamic terrorism without DIRECT Palestinian/Lebanese/Wahhabi influence.

Dr Guy

on Jan 09, 2007

Stupid rules, frankly. Even with them you have the bombings in Mexico City recently. The ETA bombed Spain again last week. There was a bus bombing a couple of days ago in Sri Lanka by the Tamil Tigers.

his blog his rules. Come on! He set them, not I. Besides, your post is not about terrorism. But about domestic violence. Yea, we got murders. last I checked, the NY gangs were not murdering muslims in Saudi Arabia.

Dr Guy

on Jan 09, 2007

Thank you! You took the bait! Ok, Muslims are .5% of the population and we have how many?

Muslims are 99% of the middle east and how many from that?

I love it when someone proves a point. Set and Match.

Dr Guy

on Jan 09, 2007

and i also believe he said the last century or at least the past decade. clinics were bombed in 97 and 98, clearly in the past decade.

As I told Baker, he set the rules, not I. Bitch at him for them.

Dr Guy

on Jan 09, 2007

That really is beneath you. Tied to what? Your restrictions? No. As was pointed out, we have .5% muslims, and so what percentage of that .5% is the ones (not all inclusive) to that .5% as to the Al qaeda to the 1.2 BILLION out there?

You asked, I supplied. At least acknowledge it. You have gone from defending all muslims (noble and true) to denying any are terrorists! Geez baker! get a grip!

bakerstreet

on Jan 09, 2007

"Thank you! You took the bait! Ok, Muslims are .5% of the population and we have how many?"

None. Zero. You couldn't even name one. Please name one if you can. Name an American Islamic terror organization or an American cell that isn't tied to the same old organizations in the Middle East. If it is Islam, and not deeper problems in the Middle East, why is the Middle East necessary?

We have lots of Muslims. Millions. Why don't we have OUR OWN terrorists? Why do they have to be recruited and trained and indoctrinated by the same old cast of characters? We have boxcutters, we have Muslims. Where's our bin Laden?

:"That really is beneath you. Tied to what? Your restrictions? No. As was pointed out, we have .5% muslims, and so what percentage of that .5% is the ones (not all inclusive) to that .5% as to the Al qaeda to the 1.2 BILLION out there?

What the hell does that even mean? It makes no sense.

"You asked, I supplied. At least acknowledge it."

You didn't supply any. Not one, and your attempt proved my point. You didn't show a single American Muslim terrorist whose hatred and ability was born here. Everyone you cited had training and indoctrination from the Middle East. If Islam were the problem, our Muslims wouldn't need indoctrination from the Middle East.

bakerstreet

on Jan 09, 2007

We've had Muslims in the US for centuries. We've had active Muslim organizations in the US for a hundred years. The Red Crescent was founded in Detroit in 1919. We've had terrorism in the US for ages, yet Muslim terrorism only sprang up along with the problems in the Middle East.

Be honest. Please. If Islam is the problem, why haven't Muslims been a problem here? Where is our bin Laden? Why is this problem imported, when we have mosques and the Koran here in abundance, along with millions of Muslims?

Because it isn't Islam.

Dr Guy

on Jan 10, 2007

Where is our bin Laden?

There is only one Bin Laden, but dozens of muslim countries. By your narrowcasting of the rules, you are basically saying that they only problem country in the world is Saudi Arabia.

You can define the problem down to the point it no longer exists (as you seem want to do), but that is not going to make people any less dead.

bakerstreet

on Jan 10, 2007

"You can define the problem down to the point it no longer exists (as you seem want to do), but that is not going to make people any less dead."

Nope. We've had tons of Muslims, mosques, lots of copies of the Koran over a hundred years. Yet, without DIRECT influence from either Lebanese or Wahhabist terrorist culture, we don't have terrorism. Period.

Your theory doesn't work, because we have had Islam in the mainstream in the US for over 100 years, and no terrorism until the usual cast of characters started up a few decades back.
Your theory doesn't work, because with our own material, our own weapons, our own boxcutters, American muslims do not attack without being involved with the same, usual cast of characters in the Middle East and Central Asia.
We have the Koran, we have Mosques, we have millions of Muslims, but oddly without influence from the usual terrorist groups WE DON'T HAVE ISLAMIC TERROR.

So, I think anyone with a FRIGGIN BRAIN would look at the situation and realize that what these terrorists have in common isn't really Islam, its a connection to these places and these groups. Period. If the problem were Islam, you'd have terror wherever there is Islam.

In reality, you only have terror where these groups have influence. Places where they don't, or where their hatefulness doesn't take hold, there aren't Islamic terrorists. So what they have in "common" isn't really Islam at all, it's the political and social problems of these places bleeding out into the rest of the world.

Saying Islam is the problem is like the racists who say that black people are just more apt to be criminals. They see a correlation between race and how many people commit crimes and they jump to the easy conclusion. Correlation isn't CAUSATION, though.

How does it feel to realize that RACISTS have more statistical evidence of their invalid points than you do of your point about Islam. At least they can really show a false positive with numbers. I've asked you to show me purely American muslim terrorists, and you can't.

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