Pointing Out Threats = Fearmongering?

Don't point to that danger! You are fearmongering!

Published on January 9, 2007 By greywar In Politics

I wonder if sheepherders in Anatolia ever had to deal with being accused of fearmongering against wolves?

Grey the Shepherd "Hey Bobby! That Wolf is getting real close to your sheep! Looks mighty hungry too!"

Bobby the P.C. Shepherd : "Shut up Grey, you're just rascist against Wolves! Most Wolves don't kill sheep, they just live peacfully in the forest in harmony with nature! I've had enough of your fearmongering ways. Its not enough for you that Moderate Wolves live in peace, you wan them to condemn being a Wolf!"

Grey : "Heck I'd just like to see the Wolves say that killing sheep is wrong and that the Wolves who do should be condemned."

Bobby : "Racism! Fearmonger!"

Grey : "Sigh..."

I suppose linking to this article from The People.uk is also rascist fearmongering but here it is anyways (emphasis mine):

"A FRESH wave of British-born extremist Muslim clerics is whipping up hatred against their own country on the internet.

These men - who dream of seeing the black flag of Islam flying over 10 Downing Street - were filmed spouting vile messages of fanaticism and violence in sermons in mosques and community centres in Britain.

...

The anti-British or pro-terrorist rants are often mixed in with talks about legitimate Islamic topics.

...

A young cleric called ABU MUWAHID, who appears frequently in clips, lavishes praise on the 9/11 attackers in a talk about prayer.

He says the "fantastic, fabulous, magnificent - whatever word you prefer, whatever word suits you, but any word of praise - soldiers destroyed the two idols of today." (I prefer the words "dead" and "terrorist"- GW)

...

He brands Muslims who are not prepared to fight as hypocrites who will go to hell. "They have no intention to conquer...or to bring the black flag over 10 Downing Street," says Muwahid. (I told you Moderates that you are next on their list - GW)

...

"We do not like non-Muslims. We are required not to like them because they reject Allah and his messengers."

...

To cheers from his audience, he promises: "One day the black flag of Islam is going to be over 10 Downing Street, whether Tony Blair likes it or not."

It is terrible of me to point things like this out put since the organization who spoke out for the Flying Imams (CAIR) can't seem to actually condemn terror organizations I don't feel too bad about it.

Moderate Muslims : You don't have to denounce Islam, but denouncing terror and killing (even if the people killed are Jews) is a pretty basic requirement if you want anyone but the ACLU to take you seriously. Even Barbara Boxer gets that part.

Additionally it seems that I am not supposed to point out stories regarding Muslims unless I am pointing out stories about people of other religions committing acts of terror as well. Please post any links you have of current news involving people of other religions: decrying the need to "raise the flag" of their religion over nations, establishing "states with a state", flying planes into buildings, bombing subways, or strapping bombs to themselves and blowing up buses and cafes.

I already know the KKK does the first two and I condemn them roundly, wholeheartedly, and think them revolting criminals. Ditto for morons who blow up abortion clinics and shoot at physicians. Follow up with others and I will discuss them even though they have already been thoroughly ostracized from their respective community support networks in a very satisfying Hobbesian/Lockean action.

Please refrain from anything more than a few years old. I must be missing the current string of terror attacks from Buddists, Confucians, Shintoists, Wiccans, and Christians (yes I have heard of the Crusades, keep it in the current century at least if not the last decade).

Comments (Page 2)

singrdave

on Jan 09, 2007

~backs away slowly from this 'clash of the titans.'

You both make valid points.

This just means Greywar is back in force.

greywar

on Jan 09, 2007

Would it make you feel better if I put (Wahabbi) in front of every reference to Islam? Is that what we are quibbling over here? Am I then "vilifying" Wahabbism?

It would be freaking shocking if terrorists there were Christian.

by that "logic" then the terror attacks in the us were done by non-muslims, and in london too? and madrid? and thailand? and russia? all majority non-muslim.

YOu've got the numbers here, where's the result?

9/11

Sean Conners aka SConn1

on Jan 09, 2007

what about the bombing of family planning clinics by the christian religious right? i think you blow them off a little too easy. i'd say those were acts of terrorism done by christians (that many in this country either defended or stayed silent on).

how bout the mafia? while it is true that traditionally they only "attack their own" they have been guilty of terrorizing, intimidating and murdering innocent, good citizens who wouldn't "pay up" or obey their wishes. and the mafia does use christianity in it's rituals and members are almost exclusively praitcing catholics.

but baker is right here...the problem isn't islam per se...just as the abortion clinic bombings weren't representative of mainstream christianity. groups like both of them have merely hijacked a religion and use it as a tool to justify their senseless brutality. unfortunately, in islam's case, the radical forms of the religion are taking over the more reasonable and peaceful elements of it. fortunately, for chritianity, the vast majority of people have usually rejected the mantras of the radicals. and even tho fringe elements of those people remain, anything they do is now tactically ineffective to their cause, and they know it. the middle eastern terrorists just don't seem to get that.

people better get used to the idea that we can't change their attitudes at the point of a gun tho. just like using planes as bombs didn't make us like them all of a sudden. maybe te best we can do is isolate them as much as possible until they wanna play nice. nations like china, the whole eastern block of europe and even vietnam have learned that "western" ways of economics are far superior to any feudal system the radical factions of islam or any facist system of marxism have come up with. no, they ain't perfect. and it's easy to start talking radical rhetoric when 1 thing doesn't go right, but most nations outside the middle east are discovering that capitalism and democracy, within the cultural boundries of their society, in the long term, are the way to go.

Dr Guy

on Jan 09, 2007

what about the bombing of family planning clinics by the christian religious right

Please refrain from anything more than a few years old.

Better reread the rules.

bakerstreet

on Jan 09, 2007

"Would it make you feel better if I put (Wahabbi) in front of every reference to Islam? Is that what we are quibbling over here? Am I then "vilifying" Wahabbism?"

You need to figure out what Wahhabism is. Without the Saud family, it wouldn't be around. It is the exact same process as the Catholic Church's use of religion in the Middle Ages. The Saud family used it through their hand-picked clerics to control their nation.

Just like Medieval Catholicism isn't a reflection of real Christian doctrine, neither is the perversion of political Islam. Up until a few years ago there had never, ever been an Arab suicide bomber that wasn't Wahhabi. Since then the Lebanese political equivalent through Hezbollah has started. Neither are a reflection of Islam, rather a reflection of Middle East politics.

"by that "logic" then the terror attacks in the us were done by non-muslims, and in london too? and madrid? and thailand? and russia? all majority non-muslim."

Eh, if you go look at every single case those were either committed by people from outside the nation, or by people who got aid, indoctrination, training and support from outside their nation. The london bombings, even though they found a few patsies to do the job, can be traced to Pakistan and the Middle East.

You're making the assumption that if a Muslim does something, the problem HAS to be Islam. You're a hypocrite about it, though, because when Christian blows up an abortion clinic you don't assume the problem is Christianity.

"9/11"

19 guys with box cutters. And... they were all foreign nationals. Don't you find it odd that something that was so easily done NEEDED foreigners. We have millions of Muslims here. If Islam is what you claim it to be, you don't think you could have gotten a handful of people together in the DECADES before?

How many years did we have basically no airline security at all? Yet no planes flew into buildings until they sent people here to do it. Makes it seem like a false claim that Islam itself is to blame, since we've had Muslims here all along.

greywar

on Jan 09, 2007

And... they were all foreign nationals

abbetted by local communities throughout the USA.

Dr Guy

on Jan 09, 2007

Don't you find it odd that something that was so easily done NEEDED foreigners

Perhaps because Bin Laden did not trust anyone else? Johnny Bin Walker? The Buffalo 7. Oregon. Michigan? Padillas.

It does not seem that al qaeda has any lack of american volunteers, just perhaps competance and trust.

greywar

on Jan 09, 2007

You're a hypocrite about it, though, because when Christian blows up an abortion clinic you don't assume the problem is Christianity.

Actually I do. There are simply lots fewer folks doing this than there are suicide bombers who are Islamic. Believe me, I have no love for any religion. For me to be a hypocrite not only would I have to not blame Christianity, I would have to be Christian (which you seem to assume). I'm not.

When right-wing whackjob christians start screaming about flying the flag of their religion over the Whtie House you'll see the same sort of articles about them.

*edited for horrible typos

bakerstreet

on Jan 09, 2007

"Better reread the rules."

Stupid rules, frankly. Even with them you have the bombings in Mexico City recently. The ETA bombed Spain again last week. There was a bus bombing a couple of days ago in Sri Lanka by the Tamil Tigers.

That took me all of a couple of minutes. If I went back weeks and took time I'm sure I could find lots and lots of attacks around the world that weren't purpetrated by Muslims. You don't hear about them because they don't make the news, and when they do your ears only seem to prick up when it is a Muslim-connected incident.

bakerstreet

on Jan 09, 2007

"Perhaps because Bin Laden did not trust anyone else? Johnny Bin Walker? The Buffalo 7. Oregon. Michigan? Padillas."

John Walker Lindh: Yemen, Pakistan. Pre-9/11 Afghanistan. No terrorist leanings before that, tied to Al Qaeda.

The Buffalo Six: Yemini-Americans trained and indoctrinated in Pre-9/11 Afghanistan, tied to Al Qaeda.

Jose Padilla: Puerto Rica gangstah (Latin Kings) who converted to Islam and indoctrinated by Lebanese-born Palestinian Adham Amin Hassoun, who was here to raise money and recruit fighters for Afghanistan.

Keep trying. You might find one or two crazies, but so far you're bust. If Islam was the problem, you wouldn't NEED to have these ties overseas. They'd have their militias here just like wacko racist Christians do.

Did Timothy McVeigh have to travel to Afghanistan for training? Eric Rudolf? Odd then that Muslims if all they need is Islam and what we already have here...

Sean Conners aka SConn1

on Jan 09, 2007

Better reread the rules.

how bout including the entire thought in the quote...i questioned his "poo-pooing" in advance of any mention of them. he doesn't want to discuss them because they deflate his argument.

and i also believe he said the last century or at least the past decade. clinics were bombed in 97 and 98, clearly in the past decade.

greywar

on Jan 09, 2007

ETA and the TT are ruthless terror gangs that rank right beside Al-Qaeda but have much less scope. The Mexico City bombings are also to be condemned even though as yet they don't know who exactly did it.

If I went back weeks and took time I'm sure I could find lots and lots of attacks around the world that weren't purpetrated by Muslims

So your case is that there islamic terror attacks are no more numerous than non-muslim ones? Really? Do you think that would bear any scrutiny?

Stupid rules, frankly

Nonetheless they are the rules. It is my blog too while we are at it.

greywar

on Jan 09, 2007

I "pooh-poohed" clinic bombings? How about reading the article?

I already know the KKK does the first two and I condemn them roundly, wholeheartedly, and think them revolting criminals. Ditto for morons who blow up abortion clinics and shoot at physicians.

I guess that is "pooh-poohing" if you disagree with me then?

bakerstreet

on Jan 09, 2007

"Do you think that would bear any scrutiny?"

I found three in a span of two weeks. You realize you could fill encyclopedias with the things the American news doesn't bother to report, right? I know people right now that aren't even aware that almost a million people died in Rwanda. You that confident in your to-the-minute knowledge of what goes on around the world?

You hear what you hear because, frankly, people like you are a focus group. Scared people watch the news, and the news feeds on scared people. You won't hear about the rest because they don't inspire you to tune in. Fearful biases have great commercial value. Just look at Bill O'Reilly's success.

Sean Conners aka SConn1

on Jan 09, 2007

19 guys with box cutters. And... they were all foreign nationals. Don't you find it odd that something that was so easily done NEEDED foreigners

excellent point. factis that we don't breed terrorists. while the occasional loon is bound to pop up every once in awhile, even the "haters" aren't buying the paradise & 72 virgin argument.

on the london and madrid bombings,,,notice they didn't blow themselves up. just the guys from the mid east are willin to do that. i think the people who orchestrated and carried out those attacks were looking fro clout, power and recognition amongst their terrorist buddies, and had no interest in meetin allah.

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