It's just more economically sound to make the necessary cuts and the necessary prayers so you don't miss any potential customers. I wouldn't be surprised if the US, with its high Jewish population, is much the same.

Sorry cacto but you'd be wrong on that. First off any food for the Jewish population is called kosher and done in a very specific manner which is not included in halal preparation. Because a lot of it is how the animal is raised and what it's fed. And halal meat is not kosher meat. So your saying it's okay for the government to make someone do something that is most definitely against their religion?

And lastly they would not allow animals to be butchered in halal fashion in this country. It's against the law. It's called animal cruelty.

It's a waste of time and money to make two or more different meals

Well heck isn't it a waste of time and money to clothes kids in those expensive and wasteful school uniforms? Lets just put them all in hijab and be done with it. It sure is cheap and easy to make and it meet the Muslim's requirements. Whats the problem?

Well the near banning of reglious christmas cards doesn't appear to apply to any of the shops in the North East of England.

Nor does the serving to halal meat happen in the school my girlfriends teachs in, nor the one before that, nor the one before that, nor any of the three in the South East when she did her training. Nor any that my work mates kids go to.

BTW, this isn't true as posted. I've dug and dug and I can't find anything approaching the clipped quote above. What I DID find is that there were a handful of Church of England Schools doing this, along with FOUR state schools.

I don't see how anyone can talk this way without seeing how similar they sound to "the jews are gonna getcha" folks from the other side. I personally have no religious mandate about how my meat should be butchered, so I have no idea WHY I should be offended by meat being killed so as to fit someone else's. I doubt seriously that greywar could tell the difference when he tastes his lunch.

How does your church tell you to slaughter meat, greywar? If it doesn't have a preference, why are you suddenly skipping alongside PETA... just because you hate muslims worse than you hate the PETA types? If I had to choose who is a worse threat to my lifestyle, I sure as hell wouldn't choose animal rights people over anyone.

I mean, how does all the efforts to ban the veil fit in with this theory, greywar? People in England are being fired for refusing to remove their veils, yet we're supposed to believe eventually all women will be wearing them? How is that supposed to make sense?

Dr Guy:

Your only feeble come back is that we dont have to eat school food

No, my only feeble come back is that it really shouldn't matter to you. It makes little to no practical difference on taste how the animal is killed, so why not make the meals suitable for everyone and make it halal or, in areas with high Jewish populations, kosher?* Christians, atheists and other faiths really have nothing to worry about because it's not like the food is branded with Satanic Allah's dark mark or anything. It just gets slaughtered in a different way and the right words said at the right time.

As for ethics - I think I've said before that I don't give a damn about the rights of stock animals. It's hypocritical to complain about halal meat if you don't intend to complain about battery farming or forced cannibalism. Halal only really affects the last few seconds; being locked in a cage from birth is for life.

greywar:

Well heck isn't it a waste of time and money to clothes kids in those expensive and wasteful school uniforms? Lets just put them all in hijab and be done with it. It sure is cheap and easy to make and it meet the Muslim's requirements. Whats the problem?

Actually hijabs are much more expensive than western clothes. Interesting fact you apparently don't know. It's all to do with supply and demand. There's little demand in western society and, of course, western Muslims wear more fashionable cuts. So it's more expensive to buy a hijab or chador than a t-shirt and pants.

School uniforms have a different purpose than school dinners, are usually modest to begin with (and so meet most Islamic guidelines) and in fact generally allow the addition of a religious headdress in school colours (particularly where Sikhs are common), so I'm not sure exactly what you think I should be outraged about.

*thanks drmiler by the way for that explanation; I assumed that kosher and halal would be practically identical due to the Abrahamic roots of both religions.

No, my only feeble come back is that it really shouldn't matter to you. It makes little to no practical difference on taste how the animal is killed, so why not make the meals suitable for everyone and make it halal or, in areas with high Jewish populations, kosher?*

Excuse me? Where did I say anything about taste? How about cruelty? Kind of skipped over that part and the part about making islam more than equal I guess. WHy not answer those questions before saying "it tastes the same". So does spam, and it is cheaper than Halil meat. So serve them that!

Baker - information on how many schools below: taken from the online meat trades journal

A catering supplier in Worcester has been forced to review its current position with some of its 50 school customers following an investigation by a local member of the British National Party into how meat on school menus is slaughtered.

Fred Capewell, managing director of Class Catering in Bromsgrove, said that a number of parents and headteachers had contacted him following the publishing of a list that revealed more than 70 schools were serving meat slaughtered using the halal method, unknown to the pupils and their parents.

Capewell said: "We have been asked by some schools to take it off the menus, but we have not taken it off wholesale. "We have written to the schools saying we will provide it unless they stipulate that they don't want it. What we will do is to identify the halal product on the school menu so that they can make an informed choice about what they are eating." He argued the situation had been "blown out of proportion", considering the very small amount of halal meat that his company supplied.

Martin Roberts, of the BNP, initiated the investigation saying he was "shocked" after he found out about the halal method of slaughtering animals and was lobbying the government to ban it. Information requested by Roberts from the Freedom of Information Act via Worcester County Council revealed 38 primary, 18 middle and 20 high schools routinely served halal meat.

Roberts insisted his line of inquiry had nothing to do with religion or race and said some people had wrongly interpreted his investigation as political. "This is an issue of animal welfare," he claimed. Roberts added he was appalled to hear that pupils were served halal meat without being informed. "Choosing to eat stunned meat is often a conscious choice, just like a Muslim's choice to eat halal meat," he said.

While the Muslim religion believes the Halal method to be a kinder and more hygienic slaughter practice some groups have argued the practice causes animals suffering and in 2003 the Farm Animal Welfare Council (FAWC) called on the government to ban the practice.


WWW Link

70 schools is more than a handful - 70 is very notable!

and the other side of the coin

Religious row over lunches
THE views of 25,000 Camden Muslims are worth less to the Town Hall than those of a single non-Muslim, a furious Bengali community leader has claimed after it emerged that halal meat was secretly removed from thousands of children’s school dinners.
Emails obtained by the New Journal show that halal meat was routinely served to Camden school children at more than 50 schools across the borough until last summer, even though it was branded non-halal.

But officials secretly ordered under-fire catering firm Scolarest to stop serving the religiously-blessed meat in July after a mother at Eleanor Palmer School discovered it and complained that halal slaughter was cruel to animals.

The revelation has provoked an angry response from Joynal Uddin, chairman of the Camden Bengali Parents and Tenants Association, who said: “One person ringing up and complaining about halal meat seems to be more important than 25,000 Muslims living in Camden.

“Half of the children in Camden schools are Muslim but we have not been involved in any of the discussions about school dinners.
“We are told that 350 parents were consulted for the council’s review, but no-one can tell us if any were Muslim.

“A large proportion of the Muslim pupils come from Somali and Bangladeshi households that are amongst the most deprived in Camden and for who this is the main meal of the day.”
He speaking after making a deputation to the council’s ruling executive, calling on more to be done to provide halal dinners.

Only Edith Neville and Argyll Primary Schools now make halal food available.
And councillors who voted to “move towards” providing halal meals for all pupils who want them on Tuesday night were all unaware that halal meat had been provided as standard until last year.

Under Muslim law animals must be killed by having their throats cuts while fully conscious while a prayer is recited.
The emails obtained by the New Journal show that officials had noted that the decision had “the capacity to be very sensitive and controversial” and that they did not tell schools or Muslim parents about the change despite the fact that more than half of those receiving free school dinners are Muslim.
Deputy Mayor Cllr Abdul Quadir, who argued passionately that Muslim children had a right to be offered halal food at Tuesday’s meeting, said: “The different communities are not being treated equally.”

And Cllr Pat Callaghan said: “I had no idea and we should have been told – this is a decision for us, not officials.”
As long ago as last May contacts manager Ian Patterson wrote in an e-mail to top education official Yvette Stanley that: “I do not think it is widely known that Halal meat is so prevalent in the catering industry.”
He added: “I am concerned that this could become another sensitive story. We need to decide whether to make a statement.

“If we do then we may have complaints and requests to serve alternative products which would be hard for Scolarest to source without major extra costs.”
And he warned: “If we do not make a statement then it may become public at some point anyway through a school releasing the information or parents inspecting food products from kitchens.

“If so, we will be asked if we knew, how long we knew, what we were doing about it if anything.”
The eventual decision to change to non-halal meat was also kept quiet.
Cllr Theo Blackwell, standing in for absent education supremo Nick Smith said: “The main thing is that we are looking to improve the provision of halal food where it is wanted; it is clearly a complicated subject but we are now doing something about it.”
n Councillors voted last night to increase spending on school dinners from September.
Catering giant Scolarest stepped up its bid to win the new contract with full page ads in both the major local papers this week.


WWW Link

so 50 across one bourough and 70 across another borough it is all adding up?

Even the farmers were urged to farm halal "meats" back in 2002

British farmers are being urged to consider diversifying into the thriving halal meat sector.
Research from the Meat and Livestock Commission has suggested there is a growing and as yet unfulfilled demand for halal meat - meat which has been ritually slaughtered according to Muslim tradition.

The figures suggest that more than half of school caterers have requirements for halal meat, and hospitals are struggling to meet the demand.

What is halal?
'Halal' means permitted or lawful
The meat must be ritually slaughtered according to Muslim tradition

The research was ordered eighteen months ago, following the commission's publication of a booklet which aimed to provide information and recipes for non-Muslims who had to prepare halal meat.

It was deluged with thousands of requests, particularly from staff in the public sector.

Under the NHS Food Programme, for example, hospitals are required to provide meals that meet patients' religious dietary requirements.

One NHS Trust now employs two full-time halal chefs.

A spokesman for the Commission said halal meat production could be an ideal opportunity for farmers wishing to diversify into one of the few growing sectors of the agricultural economy.

Although Muslim families represent just 5% of the population, they consume an estimated 20% of all British lamb and mutton.

Global trade in halal products is estimated to be worth more than £30bn annually.


link WWW Link

70 out of how many? How many are state schools? How many schools are there in England, would you say?

Regardless, not one person so far is really dealing with WHY IT EVEN MATTERS. Unless your religion has something against Halal meats, I fail to understand how the other people are being put out by it.

If some people care, and the rest don't, and there's no difference in taste or quality, then what does it matter? If you open the system up to the bleeding heart, "I Wuv Animals" lobby then you won't have any meat there at all.

In other words if the only reason people care is they don't want Muslims to get their way, they they are bigots. Period.

it would appear as if there are far more similarities between kosher and halal meat requirements than differences--altho kosher is more restrictive. more lobsters for the rest of us