Islamism, Culture, Terror, and Paris Hilton
Published on December 15, 2006 By greywar In Politics

            Mark Steyn has posited that Europe is rapidly approaching (and perhaps has even passed) a demographic point of no return. Dharma’s recent article regarding the extermination of Christian references during the Christmas season in Britain seems to re-enforce the point. I ask you here at JU and beyond the walls of this blog to answer these questions: Can Europe reverse the trend or is it already too late? Will Europe be forced to don the hijab and accept their status as Dhimmi under the approaching New Caliphate? Is it possible that this could force a return to European fascism and nationalism as a counter?

            For my part I think it is far too late for Europe to turn the demographic tide by simply having more kids. The cultural revolution of the Zero Population Growth advocates has come to pass and there is no likely return to the reproductive habits of earlier centuries. I believe that it is also too late for Europe to resort to a resurgent fascist movement as a means of cultural survival as Ralph Peters “rebuttal” to Steyn would suggest. The population simply isn’t there and neither is the will to fight. The Muslims of Europe simply seem to want it more. There will be no rising tide of old school European nationalism simply because there are not enough young non-Muslim militants for it to work. You can’t deport people en masse without a brutal and ideologically engaged military with enough numbers to combat their opposites in the deportee community.

            My prediction is that Europe will fall to Islamism with hardly a whimper as long as the Muslims don’t try and rush things with further terror attacks. They will simply breed their way into power. More kids mean more votes and I don’t care how educated post-schismatic bishops think they are :

 

"Episcopalians aren't interested in replenishing their ranks by having children?"

"No," agreed Bishop Kate. "It's probably the opposite. We encourage people to pay attention to the stewardship of the earth and not use more than their portion." (How very Paris Hilton of her - GW)

            The fact is that her single grand kid gets one vote when they reach the age of majority and this woman’s 42 grandkids get 42:

"We are really happy," her son Zuheir told Agence France-Presse. "She told us last night that she would do a suicide operation. She prepared her clothes for that operation, and we are proud. 'I don't want anything, only to die a martyr.' That's what she said."

                If Europe is lucky they might be allowed to leave the new Caliphate for the U.S. and other more secular areas provided that America has not also gone down the same road to the abattoir of the infidel called Political Correctness first. After all we would want the Brits to beat us to it do we? After all the folks in “non-flyover America  want us to be as urbane and refined as those fancy Europeans.

            Just my opinion though, I am sure you will tell me how wrong it is….

 

 

 

 

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Comments (Page 3)
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on Dec 16, 2006
I'm trying to think of a product, good, or service that I own that is European in manufacture or thought.


Nokia phones! That's it. Yup. Can't think of anything else.

Ooh, chocolates!

Bratwurst? Well, most of it's made in the US these days, even if it is German in invention . . .

Hmm . . . drawing blanks.
on Dec 16, 2006

No it isn't.

We will disagree then.  Since the Jews did not rain down destruction on Nazi Germany IN any form, prior to their persecution.  We are not talking about 1 or 2 here (or 19 or 20).  We have a fact.  the WTC.  Muslims did it (granted .00000000000001% of them), but no similar action by Jews to warrant the persecution.

I stand by my statement.

on Dec 16, 2006
European exports are higher. This is a fact.
on Dec 16, 2006
I'm trying to think of a product, good, or service that I own that is European in manufacture or thought.


Cars? Most small passenger vehicles sold in Australia are designed and/or engineered in Europe. It might be the same in the US too.
on Dec 16, 2006

According to Wikipedia, the EU's GDP was higher than the US' in 2005. (Granted - EU population is higher as well, thus GDP per capita is lower.)
Germany alone is the largest exporter of goods in the world. Sounds like there are interesting products after all.

The Funny thing about that is, it is subjective.  I had a debate with a co-worker back in 03.  I also argued the EU was bigger.  Yet I could and did find sources that said both ways (smaller and bigger). Since Wikipedia is editable by anyone, it cannot be used as an authoratative source.  Although I do beleive that in the short term the EU does have the potential to be bigger as we are not annexing Canada and mexico to grow our economy.

on Dec 16, 2006

A question of how much money to transfer from one person to another isn't diversity IMO.

Well, then it's not diversity for you. Nonetheless there are a lot of different opinions from the far left to the far right - and the political parties that represent them.

Ok. So what % of Europeans are voting for left-of-center parties vs. right-of-center parties?  My impression is that the vast majority of Europeans end up supporting far left vs. middle left parties with center and right parties getting tiny minorities?

For example: Germany.

You have the Christian Democratic Union. This is closest to the American democratic party (left of center). (Christian Social Union handles Bavaria).

There's also the Social Democratic party. They are essentially the equivalant of the socialist party. Far left.

Then there's the Free Democratic party. Gets about 10% of the vote. It's far-left on many social issues. The only thing right-wing about them is they tend to be the most hawkish. But all things are relative here. On fiscal policy they're center.  Overall, they're kind of a centrist part (at best).

Then there's the Green party which is far left.

And the party of Democratic socialism.  Heck, from an outsider's point of view, there's not even a lot of diversity in the names of these parties.

My point being, you say how laughable it is for me to say that there isn't a lot of diversity in political thought in Europe. But then you don't explain how I'm wrong. I'm totally willing to be convinced otherwise. I travel to Europe but I'm not expert on European life.

In the United States the gulf between the Democrats and Republicans is significant. And there are significant pullings to the left and right on each. And, as everyone not in a cave knows, it's a 50/50 country.

There are significant amounts of debate with each side having significant support for their view on all kinds of issues in the USA:

  • Gun control
  • Death penalty
  • Abortion
  • Welfare
  • Social services
  • Income re-distribution
  • Income inequitiy
  • Foreign policy

In European countries, I see consensus. Guns are bad. Death penalty is bad. Abortion on demand. Cradle to Grave welfare. Lots of social services. income inequitiy is bad. Peace through diplomacy.

That's not to say that there aren't those who disagree in Europe. But that's irrelevant. If 80% of the people feel basically the same, that's not very diverse.  And on many of these issues, European support one way or the other on htese issue is 90% or greater.

on Dec 16, 2006

I switched because I didn't have the figures for the EU ready, maybe I should have made that clearer. Thanks for putting me in the box with all "typical Europeans" for a few statements though.

My point wasn't to prove how great the EU or Germany is anyway. I just wanted to point out that your statement

Sorry. Prejudice on my part. I get into these kinds of debates with Europeans so often it's hard not to assume the next one is going to be the same thing.

What I usually end up dealing with in debates are people cherry picking statistics between europe and individual countries based on what helps their argument.

As for asking what Europe makes, I was serious. What things does Europe make and export? You said its GDP is bigger than the US's. And it is indeed. So, what is Europe making these days that people use? I'm sure there's a long list of incidentals (France and Germany have some large drug companies for instance). But my point is that Europe's impact on the world seems to be decreasing by the year.

Let me give you an example that hits closer to home:

In the last GUI Championships, there were 0 finalists from Europe. 0. USA, China, Russia, heck Brazil and elsewhere were represented. But not one European.  Europeans make up 38% of the users of the stuff created by these people but produced 0% of the content.  

From the outside, Europe just comes across as the ultimate consumer. Living off of past efforts and past industriousness and just counting down the clock.

on Dec 16, 2006
You have the Christian Democratic Union. This is closest to the American democratic party (left of center).

Only on some issues. E.g. the majority of CDU opposes abortion and would probably have made much different politics than Schroeder (SPD) did regarding the war in Iraq. They do have serious support from big business and usually are in power where the economy is strong in Germany.

There's also the Social Democratic party. They are essentially the equivalant of the socialist party. Far left.

SPD is left of CDU, that's right. They have a significant left wing (which lost a lot of influence in the last 5 years), but they're not anti-business in general.

Then there's the Free Democratic party. Gets about 10% of the vote. It's far-left on many social issues. The only thing right-wing about them is they tend to be the most hawkish. But all things are relative here. On fiscal policy they're center. Overall, they're kind of a centrist part (at best).

Right about the social issues, but on the other hand they're 100% pro free market and business. Most Entrepreneurs vote for them (or the CDU) usually.

Then there's the Green party which is far left.

Their name is their program: Environment and peace.

I think it's very difficult to compare the political systems in most European countries with the one in the US. We simply have different traditions, with the most important being the role of the government (re-distribution etc.). What may seem "all left" for you isn't for us. And I think that elections with more than two (promising) parties to vote about give us the possibility to show the disagreements better.

I know that there are hot topics in the US like the list you presented. But are most of them really that close in the surveys (<10% difference)? Wouldn't it be safe to say that the average US american thinks that "Guns are good. Death penalty is good. The UN sucks. Peace through force. USA above all."? (As you said, not 100%, but a majority of let's say 55%/60%+)

In the last GUI Championships, there were 0 finalists from Europe.

I guess this example was too specific. E.g. Germany has the fourth largest software corporation, SAP (granted, with three US corps at the top).

What things does Europe make and export?

I'll stick to Germany because that's where I know things better: Engineering (Siemens, MAN and many of smaller size), chemical industry (BASF), pharmaceutics (Bayer), cars (Volkswagen, Mercedes, BMW, Porsche), telecommunication (isn't T-Mobile active in the US by now?), finance (Deutsche Bank), logistics (Deutsche Post through DHL). The CIA World Factbook states "among the world's largest and most technologically advanced producers of iron, steel, coal, cement, chemicals, machinery, vehicles, machine tools, electronics, food and beverages, shipbuilding, textiles".

Regarding exports and competitiveness: How about the significant trade deficit of the US? Can't you produce what you need on your own? Are the US doomed? (Just joking of course.)
on Dec 16, 2006
To me, this debate (if you can call it that) seems pointless. Just a bunch of stubborn Americans arguing with a bunch of stubborn Europeans.

Americans are willing to believe the most far out facts about Europe e.g. Europe is being taken over by Muslims, Europe has no religion etc. Most of the facts are spread by scared right wing bloggers, they fly around, they are added to and before you know it they become 'fact'.

Europeans are willing to believe the stereotypes about Americans, e.g. they are all religious extremists (End Timers etc) or they want to enslave the world etc.

Having lived in several EU countries and a few US states I can say that bickering between Europe and America is pitiful because it is based on fear and loathing not real facts.
on Dec 16, 2006
As for asking what Europe makes, I was serious. What things does Europe make and export? You said its GDP is bigger than the US's. And it is indeed. So, what is Europe making these days that people use? I'm sure there's a long list of incidentals (France and Germany have some large drug companies for instance). But my point is that Europe's impact on the world seems to be decreasing by the year.
Let me give you an example that hits closer to home:
In the last GUI Championships, there were 0 finalists from Europe. 0. USA, China, Russia, heck Brazil and elsewhere were represented. But not one European. Europeans make up 38% of the users of the stuff created by these people but produced 0% of the content.
From the outside, Europe just comes across as the ultimate consumer. Living off of past efforts and past industriousness and just counting down the clock


Uh Brad...you may want to check this against the #40 reply. Last I knew Germany was "part" of Europe. And as far as I can tell everything he wrote about German exports is spot on.

I'll stick to Germany because that's where I know things better: Engineering (Siemens, MAN and many of smaller size), chemical industry (BASF), pharmaceutics (Bayer), cars (Volkswagen, Mercedes, BMW, Porsche), telecommunication (isn't T-Mobile active in the US by now?), finance (Deutsche Bank), logistics (Deutsche Post through DHL). The CIA World Factbook states "among the world's largest and most technologically advanced producers of iron, steel, coal, cement, chemicals, machinery, vehicles, machine tools, electronics, food and beverages, shipbuilding, textiles".
on Dec 16, 2006

I know that there are hot topics in the US like the list you presented. But are most of them really that close in the surveys (<10% difference)? Wouldn't it be safe to say that the average US american thinks that "Guns are good. Death penalty is good. The UN sucks. Peace through force. USA above all."? (As you said, not 100%, but a majority of let's say 55%/60%+)

Yes, it's really very close.  Nearly a majority think guns are a good thing and Nearly a majority would like to see a lot more gun control.  A majority of Americans think the death penalty is good but a large minority think it's bad. A majority of Americans like the UN overall but a large minority think it sucks. It's pretty even on whether we're better off with Peace through strength (not force) vs. peace through diplomacy.

By contrast, Europeans (usually proudly) claim there is a "consensus" on these issues. There isn't any such consensus on these issues here.

I guess this example was too specific. E.g. Germany has the fourth largest software corporation, SAP (granted, with three US corps at the top).

It's more than that though.  You pointed out that Europe, as a whole, has a larger GDP. My response to that is that thad GDP is mostly about providing services -- to each other and that they don't actually make stuff that really goes outside its borders.

You say SAP is the 4th largest software company.  Sure. But 13 of the top 15 are American. Why is that?

Europe only has 1 of the top 5 largest auto companies and shares another with the US (Daimler Chrysler). Why is that?

I could walk through every major industry that involves producing things that the modern world universally uses and you would be hard pressed to find an industry that Europe leads in. Why is that?

I genuinely am interested in knowing. It's like Europe, having gotten tired of murdering each other enmasse has taken a long collective nap and is now just waiting around to die out entirely.

I'll stick to Germany because that's where I know things better: Engineering (Siemens, MAN and many of smaller size), chemical industry (BASF), pharmaceutics (Bayer), cars (Volkswagen, Mercedes, BMW, Porsche), telecommunication (isn't T-Mobile active in the US by now?), finance (Deutsche Bank), logistics (Deutsche Post through DHL). The CIA World Factbook states "among the world's largest and most technologically advanced producers of iron, steel, coal, cement, chemicals, machinery, vehicles, machine tools, electronics, food and beverages, shipbuilding, textiles".

(with regard to what is being exported)

Okay. That is good. I did mention luxury cars but okay: Bayer - 13th largest drug company despite having a century+ head start. Germany does great luxury cars. But that's a very niche market. Siemens is indeed impressive. Same with BASF.  And same for T-mobile. 

But it's still not a very impressive list overall. Do you disagree? That is, Germany is the most successful continental European country. You'd think it would be relatively easy to pump out dozens of companies that make things that are ubiquitous.

If you were to add in say France and Italy and Spain, do you think the list would scale up impressively?

Let me put it another way. If an alien anthropogist were studying different cultures, what do you think they'd make of the continent of Europe? A group of nation states that had a massive lead over the rest of the world 200 years ago but today leads in virtually no major industry.  Even BASF, which is impressive, isn't the leading chemical company anymore. When it started, how many chemical companies were there? The US was fighting a civil war.

In industry after industry, Europe either had a head start because the indusries already existed or they never even got really into the game. The newer the industry, the worse Europe seems to do.

I'm not trying to bash Europe. I am trying to understand. It's a continent that once absolutely dominated the world that today can't be bothered to produce most of the things they use and now can't be bothered to even reproduce.

 

on Dec 16, 2006

Americans are willing to believe the most far out facts about Europe e.g. Europe is being taken over by Muslims, Europe has no religion etc. Most of the facts are spread by scared right wing bloggers, they fly around, they are added to and before you know it they become 'fact'.

Are you denying they're facts or are you objecting that the facts are being spread around?

And why are these facts scarey?

Europe IS slowly being taken over by Muslims. That's a statistical fact. Europeans are overwhelmingly secular now. Why would that scare me? I'm an atheist.

If you don't like these facts or if you disagree with them, then set the record straight. Don't think that the population of native Europeans is declining? You don't think the Islamic populations are the fastest growing segments in western Europe? You don't think Europeans are secular and becoming increasingly secular?

Tell me which "fact" you don't agree with.

on Dec 16, 2006

Uh Brad...you may want to check this against the #40 reply. Last I knew Germany was "part" of Europe. And as far as I can tell everything he wrote about German exports is spot on.

Uh John...where did I imply otherwise?

I asked him for a list of things that is being exported. He gave a list of things from Germany (in #38 -- I deleted 2 duplicate posts). I'm fine with that. I responded in #41.  Why are you suggesting that I'm disregarding his list when I hadn't even responded to it when you responded?

on Dec 16, 2006
I am very interested in this subject and have been watching Europe and Israel very carefully over many years.

I see it all coming together. There is a vortex over Jerusalem and it is rapidly growing in intensity as we move forward to what I believe is the last chapter of this age.

What we are seeing, like a plug being pulled from the sink, is how all the nations are getting sucked toward the center like water rushing down the drain. What we are seeing right before our eyes is this circular motion drawing evil and wicked men and nations toward Israel.

There were four empires named in the prophetic book of Daniel..... Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome. They each in turn ruled and plundered Israel before they left the scene. During the last 50 years,....not by accident.....these nations have re-emerged as Iraq (ancient Bablon), Iran (ancient Persia), Syria (ancient Greece) and the EU (ancient Rome). The first three we know quite well are mortal enemies of Israel. All have publicly declared their intention to destroy Israel. The EU (revived Roman Empire) has consistently opposed Israel in the UN and supported the Palestianians. Right now it's placing troops in Southern Lebanon on the border with Israel. This gives the EU a strategic foothold to fulfill her part in end time events.

Out of this revived Roman Empire, the Antichrist will emerge and make Jerusalem his headquarters. That's why for centuries many have indicated the Pope would fulfil this role because they could see from Revelation and Daniel that ithe antichrist would emerge from this Roman Empire (Now the EU).

Many are watching a man named Javier Solona out of Spain. I'd keep an eye on him if I were you. Do your research. If you know anything of biblical prophecy...this man will make your hair turn white.







on Dec 16, 2006
youtube.com/watch?v=dROAOxkMTtk
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