Sometimes it isn't discrimination.
Published on March 5, 2007 By greywar In Business

    I was a pizza driver. I am not ashamed of this fact but I have hidden it on occasion. Why? Because allowing the fact to be known in these situations would have placed me at a massive disadvantage. Let me explain:

     When the company I know work for called me back and scheduled a sit-down to talk about making me a salary offer I knew that I needed to do a few things:

          1. Get a new set of clothes. I dress like an unemployed lumberjack most days and this simply wouldn't help me in the interview.

          2. Do a bit of research on the Net for the range of salaries people receive for this type of work.

          3. Lie about my current employment. At least omitting my current pizza guy status.

          4. Put on my best poker face for the interview.

     I was in fairly dire straits money wise at the time but I knew that there was no way that the H.R. person could be allowed to know this. So I went to the interview looking my best and appearing to be overwhelmingly confident in m own worth. In reality I was desperate to land the job.

     The H.R. lady was very nice but it was immediately apparent from the first moment of the interview that this was a struggle between her mission to secure good employees for as small a cost as possible and my mission to get the job for as much money as I could get. Throughout the interview she repeatedly tried to find out my current financial and employment situation in a number of oblique approaches (like asking where I lived now (good or bad neighborhood)). I parried and dissembled as best I could an she came away with the (mistaken) impression that I was in college full-time and working small consultant jobs with other government contractors.

     If she had known I was a pizza driver my job offer would have dropped by at least 10% automatically. If I had still lived on the bad side of town? Likely another 5% drop. If I showed up looking like I just walked in from a rave? 5-10% percent. In the end I got the job and a good wage for someone without a degree.

     Now this model is the norm in the Defense industry. Most companies either bill hourly employees to the government at a given rate (more than the employee gets) or they are given a lump sum for yearly employees and keep the overages. this means that you have to be aggressive when you negotiate for money. Usually the company wants to fill the position ASAP since it can't get overage money for unfilled positions. Push hard and get the money you deserve.

     I work with several other people in the same job position but I make more than almost everyone of them. In fact I am pretty certain that the only people who make more than I do here are the team leads and department heads. My closest friend here only makes 65% of my salary and we do the same exact job while one of my female co-workers only makes 70%.

     Is this because of racial or sexual discrimination? Nope, all of these folks simply took the first number that the H.R. person offered because they were terrified that they wouldn't get the job. These same folks also don't really understand that salaries can be re-negotiated when you have more experience or have earned a professional certification.

     On a related note, none of these people are in the company's very generous 401k plan or tae advantage of the company health care either. In Brad's terms they are choosing to remain poor first by not fighting for what they are worth and secondly by not taking advantage of the benefits of being employed by a huge company.

     While employees here and prohibited from discussing their salaries most folks eventually find out who makes what in rough terms. Many of these folks immediately cry "discrimination!" only to find out that they have violated their contract by disclosing their salary to other employees... Viola! You're shitcanned! In reality it wasn't discrimination at all but a lack of the most basic of skills needed to get the wage they could have gotten. Most of these folks wouldn't even dress up for the job interview or the salary offer, allowed the H.R. folks to know that they were a stocker at Target, and let them know that they live in "Frytown" (the worst part of town). These facts are like blood in the water to a good H.R. shark and these folks lost out as a result.

    The reason this is on my mid is a recent interview with Lis Wiehl on the O'Reilly Factor. In the interview she claims that she was discriminated against by a university because she found out that while she was a professor in charge of the largest department she was being paid 5% less than the male professor of the smallest department. In reality it is very unlikely that she was being discriminated against and far more likely that she simply didn't shoot high enough in her salary negotiations. The university didn't allow disclosure of salary info so she went in blind and didn't have any idea what that male professor made. The university (being a for profit organization) is under no obligation to tell her that this other guy demanded more than she was settling for.

     It is called the job market for a reason folks. You have to be willing to haggle. I am not making huge money here (not by a long-shot) but my non-negotiating co-workers are being raped by comparison. Frankly this is the sort fo thing that should be taught to a child before they hit the non fast food job market.

 

 

 

 

 

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Comments
on Mar 05, 2007
It is indeed called the market. And I know it well. Thanks for some tips. And you are right. The first one to mention money (potential employee or employer) is the loser. You know the game! Good luck in it. I am not good at it, but at least I do ok.
on Mar 05, 2007
This is actually a very informative rant. I'd likely be one of those saps that would accept the first offer and perhaps be very open with an H.R. person; it's not necessarily that I want to stay poor, but that I'm naturally trusting and naive (you've seen it).

Despite the solidly written and interesting article, my favorite part was still the personal touches: "I dress like an unemployed lumberjack most days." Good to see you writing again.
on Mar 05, 2007
But now you are an employed former lumberjack, right?
I may end up out your way in a few months.
on Mar 05, 2007
I just wrote an article about the same issue. A potential employer wants me to email my salary requirements. I think I just want a job and feel that I'm not as valuable because I have been out of the workforce for so long. I feel like I just need to get my foot in the door. I don't know, it's a hard situation. I do think that many woman are not as aggressive in pursuing a higher salary as a man and also that if they take time off to raise their family, like me, they feel that they aren't worth as much. I also feel like it's a completely different world out there for people who have a college degree than those who just have work experience or lack of experience.
on Mar 05, 2007
You're right, negotiating is a good way to go, always. Not just when you're buying a car or a house, but when you're seeking employment too. It's never good to settle for what is being offered and its always good to do a bit of research before going in.

Good article!
on Mar 05, 2007
I do think that many woman are not as aggressive in pursuing a higher salary as a man and also that if they take time off to raise their family, like me, they feel that they aren't worth as much.


You're right when you say this Loca, many women feel that way. Most times though, if someone is considering returning to the job market they can buff up their skills, go on websites to research what the job would be worth and most important of all, think about what you will be offering the company. Go in with ideas on what you could do for them, I find that always helps!
on Mar 05, 2007
A potential employer wants me to email my salary requirements


It's the game. Hard to say what to say, but if you mention it first, they win. Either too high or too low. My response would be (and this is not gospel), My salary requirements are commensurate with the duties outlined.

Ouch! I really hate that one. But if you feel it, tell them what you want. And be prepared.
on Mar 05, 2007
Got any openings out there at 65% your salary?
on Mar 05, 2007

Got any openings out there at 65% your salary?

Yep, there doesn't seem to be a month that goes by here without openings. It does help to know someone as well. Most folks here got their jobs via a friend who is already here.

on Mar 06, 2007

The job I now hold is the first job I had some chance to negotiate my salary. Because I didn't hold my A+ certification, there was a ceiling as to how high I could go. I asked for 50 cents more than I received, but $1.50 more than I was told the job offer, so I got a net increase of $1.00 an hour over my expected salary. But because I was going to school FT, they bumped it up another $1.00 an hour expecting me to get my A+. So I came out looking pretty good, all in all

on Mar 07, 2007
I have been in this situation many times. I always say: "What is the job worth? What do you think I may be worth." When I was younger I had the cheek to say: "I can do better than that. Forget it." It worked--sometimes.
on Mar 12, 2007
Grey,
All I could think while reading your article was: "Greywar got a job!"
How exciting, how unlike you! ::

Congratulations! And way to go on the salary negotiation.
on Mar 14, 2007
Negotiating salary is still a tricky matter.