Yeah, them's some great parenting skills at work there!

For anyone who wonders why 'they' are the way they are...there's your answer.

Back a couple years ago you'll recall a young palestinian women blew herself up in Israel. I can understand the psyche of a nation that sends its young men to die for the cause, but women? We too have sent young women to die in our wars. A girl from Wisconsin was just buried after having been killed in Iraq. What's this world coming to? What are we men supposed to be fighting for if not for our women back home? And now women are going into battle, women are blowing themselves up, and apparently little girls are wielding handguns. Unfortunately the one in that picture didn't have quite as much spark of life in her eyes as Natalie in "The Professional". Call me old fashioned, but my feelings about women in combat are probably about the same as women might feel about me working in Victoria's Secret.
Thanks for the opportunity to vent.
We now return to our regularly scheduled programming.

I suppose you have never seen pictures of the sweat shops all over the world producing goods for the American economy?

The abuse of children occurs in many ways. Those in conflict zones often get dragged into the fighting. Those in many poor countries are often forced into labour. It's a sad world but pinting the finger purely at the Palestinians is unfair,

Paul.

Solitair - If you asked me whether I would want my daughter working in a factory or wearing an explosive belt I would not have to consider the choices for long. Do you know why? Because it is not even *remotely* in the same league. Additionally, the USA doesn't force anyone anywhere to work in sweatshops. We fixed our problem with that in the 1950's - 1970's If the other nations of the wotrld can't pull their collective heads out of their asses in similar fashion, blame them not us. No child should be forced to work in a sweatshop and frankly I would suppor a "US War of Imperialism" to free them. However I am sure you would immediately criicize that too.
I do not point the finger at Palestinians at all. They point it at themselves. Their insane leadership and inability to raise an internal oppositon have long since sealed their fates. It is just a shame that animals like Arafat (who is not a Palestinian) feel the need to drag innocent kids down with their own degeneracy.
Nonetheless I thank you for at least being honest about what you think. More than most are willing to do.

Arquonzo - There is a part of me that feels the same about women in combat roles, at the same time the liberal part of my brain points to the freedom of choice all adults should be entitled to. With that freedom comes the responsibilty to pay for the cnsequences of your actions. The fallen Guard from Wisconsin is a hero, her sisters should go back and fulfill their obligation or they will change status from responsible citizen to oathbreaker. Sounds harsh, but honoring commitments is what defines a socitey from a pack of animals.

greywar- Sounds very harsh. Between the reality of what they went through and losing their sister, how can you look into their hearts and judge them? Honoring commitment? Would you have young women stay in marriages while the man they married turned out to be one of those I'm sorry I hit you baby girl, you shouldn't have asked where I was last night kinda guys? There are things that are more important than oaths. Thank God your definition of society is so very wrong.

First of all--the Palestinians pictured are in a Lebanonese camp, not the Occupied Territories...that would be like seeing a picture of an Irish American in NYC and saying that it makes you sick so we shouldn't consider dealing with the "degnerative political movement" in Ireland--kind of sounds silly now, eh?

Second--there are bad parents all over the world. You hear about stories of kids playing with their father's guns in the US and accidently shooting their friends--are you sickened by the "degenerative political movement" fondly referred to as the NRA--maybe, but you probably also recognize that the NRA is not responsible for bad parenting...All Palestinians are not responsible because some parent was stupid and allowed their kids to "play" with a handgun.

Third--I wholeheartedly disagree that "Palestinians point the finger at themselves." Sure, their leadership has made some horrible decisions and their militant/terrorist groups are despicable--but they while they are not 100% in the right, they are certainly not 100% in the wrong. Palestinians wouldn't be in the desperate straits that they are in if the Israeli government showed them some human decency and followed UN resolutions. To repeat an oft used saying.."there's blood on everyone's hands" when it comes to dealing with the Middle East.

Fawn - The US Military is *filled* with people who have suffered losses. If the military allows everyone with a loss to leave their commitment laying in the dirt then the country falls to shreds. There are avenues which are perfectly legitimate for hese young ladies to take if they wish to leave the military. Primary - fulfill their current contract and then ETS with a full and honorablek discharge. The Army is not a lifetime commitment. When your contract is up you leave. The Army can extend your contract for about one year at their discretion, but this is a known. It is right in the enlistement contract you sign when you join of your *own free will*. These people signed up to do this job. The american public needs them to honor that promise. If they can not morally bring themselves to go back to a wa zone becase they have become conscientious objectors then the Army has an entire section of staff devoted to allowign them to leave the Army with honor. The Army provides many ways aroudn any situation, my point is that when you come home on leave from anywhere in the Army and then simply decide to stay there without official permission, it is not conscientious objection. It is in fact desertion.

I do not need to look into their heats and judge them. I only need o look at what they agreed to do for the american taxpayer and what they actually do. Their own actions will judge them, not me. Botoom line : If you don't intend to fulfill your duty as a soldier, *don't enlist!* simple. it is the reason we dont use compulsory service anymore. Thank God that millions of soldiers definition of society has allowed you the freedom to express yours Fawn.


PS Comparing the oath of enlistement to an abusive arriage is so far beneath my "ridicule radar" that it deserves no serious contemplation.

Shades - yes I am sickened by gun-owners who are so degenerate that they allow their children to shoot themselves. No argument there. The NRA is not the responsible party as you say. It is morronic parents.

Additionally if you follws the links on LGF you will find a slide show o roughly 120 pictures of the Al-aksa Martyr Brigades, Hamas, the PLO (tell me the PLO are not Palestinians go ahead... please)

Palestinians would also not be in dire starights if their "arab bothers" helped them out. Ask a Jordanian if he wants a "Pali" to marry his sister and you will get a response that could hav come from a Klansman. The Israelis have been so forthcomin over the years through countless dimplomatic offer that it boggles the mind. The PLO simply has never been interested in any solution short of pushing the "Evil Jew" into the Mediterranean.

Thank for the thoughts though.

oof I apologize for the awful spelling in that one, i am getting ready to go to work. I should have simply waited until I had more time.

I very much stand behind these young men and women. The ones who still believe in what they are doing and the ones who have decided that they were lied to, or that this isn't the kind of protecting our country that they signed up for. I even stand behind the ones that are just scared to death and want to come home. And as far as child abuse, our country is far from being a strong child advocator.

Greywar:

Sorry I didn't see the slide show--I'll check it out before I respond.

Ok, Greywar--I've seen the slideshow and while I agree that the parents of these children lack proper decision making skills...I can pick out at least a handful of these slides where I would question the source--not to mention that several of the slides look blantantly doctored--like the one of the baby with the huge gun--ain't no way that baby is holding up that gun. But regardless--allowing your baby to be kissed by Arafat is not child abuse, and there was one slide that was clearly an iraqi child in front of an iraqi flag. My arabic is not as good as it should be, but I would be interested in knowing that is written on the headbands that the "grandmother" is putting on the kids head? Also, what is the problem with the phrase, "no God but God and Mohammad is the prophet of Allah"--sounds like a religious tenet of Islam--not a terrorist statement...I could go on and on...

My point (I'm sure you are hoping that I will come to one) is that these may or may not be true--but regardless the intent of this slide show is certain--it's meant to heighten your EMOTIONAL response to the conflict. I'm sure (I should probably say, I hope) that we will agree that there is already plenty emotion in the Middle East and more emotional responses are not going to get us any closer to a peaceful, sustainable solution.

Additionally if you follws the links on LGF you will find a slide show o roughly 120 pictures of the Al-aksa Martyr Brigades, Hamas, the PLO (tell me the PLO are not Palestinians go ahead... please)

sounds like you are trying to pick a fight--I'm not interested in fighting, but I am more than willing to discuss ideas--the PLO is corrupt and evil, so what--Ariel Sharon is being indicted on charges that he took bribes from a developer--so what--politicans and political organizations around the world are corrupt and many are evil, I'm not surprised that the PLO is as well. I stand by my point about the Palestinians in Lebanon--it raises the question: why haven't they been given refugee status in Lebanon--instead of helping the Palestinians the Lebanese government is harping on about their displaced status. I'm in agreement that the Arab world has turned its back on the Palestinians--but that fact still doesn't make the occupation of the West Bank legitimate.

Ask a Jordanian if he wants a "Pali" to marry his sister and you will get a response that could hav come from a Klansman.

I'm not sure where you are getting this from--I'd be hesitant to make blanket statements about Jordanian responses to Palestinians--it's been a rocky history, but the Palestinians in Jordan don't have it half bad at the moment...I personally know Palestinians refugess from the 67 war who live in Amman and have pretty posh roles in the Jordanian Electrical Company--so, yes there might be people who have "klanlike" comments, but there are klansmen in the US and that doesn't mean that all American's are klansmen.

Also, don't worry about your spelling...I'm more interesting in the points you are making than grammar--I'm glad you took the time to respond even though you were in a hurry!

Shades - I agree with your poitn that the slide show is meant to heighten your emotional response. In fact it is that lack of emotional connection to the area that leads many Americans to regard the conflict as some sort of neighborhood disagreement or even worse as some sort of military enagement. It is neither. I have *zero* problems with the PLO targetting military personnel or installations although a declaration of war would be the honorable thing to do first. I can not support suicide attacks on civilians under *any* circumstances *ever*. I include in this the the US attcks on civilian targets in previous wars, chiefly in WWII and additionally in some cases Vietnam. There was neve an excuse for Dresden or the use of atomic weapons in my opinion. Those were different times and I was not alive then, but I still have a hard time viewing those acts any other way. Nor can I do anything but condemn bombing attacks using children. The adult fighters in this conflict should be adult enough to fight and die for their own causes. The IDF certainly is. The military of any nation have volunteered themselves as surrogates for violence. We are targets so that our civilian populace need not be. Once a political facion with the popular support of its civilians cross this line my sympathry dries up totally. Any legitimacy there may have been in their cause before becomes completely wiped out. This is not to say that the cause is irredeemable however, the Palestinians could certainly revolt against their current leaders and behave like a civilization again. I simply don't see any evidence that they will do so.

My info on Arab disliek of the Palestinian is based on th same sort of sources that your information is, word of mouth from Arabs in the mentioned nations. We could both be right or wrong on this point and there is little we coudl do to prove or disprove it. With that in mind I should never have brought the point up as a debate issue as it is basically devoid of real value and was unsupported by any quotable research. My apologies.

My last point would be to say that in my opinion, letting Arafat anywhere *near* a child is morally reprehensible. The man has no redeeming qualities whatsoever that could possibly outshine his atrocious history of conflict mongering for personal gain. While his people live in squalid camps he himself lives a lavish lifestyle. Not to mention his outright sanction of the above mentioned crimes against humanity.

this isn't the kind of protecting our country that they signed up for.

Then what the heck did they think they were siging up for? I'm soooo done hearing "it's not like I thought it was going to be; I want to go home" What did you thnk you were going to do when you joined? In this day and age anyone who enlists must realize that they run a great chance of being deployed into a combat/conflict situation.

I even stand behind the ones that are just scared to death and want to come home

If the military were to send everyone home who a) got scared at anytime during their deployment or just wanted to come home...well, there'd be nobody left at the deployed location. EVERYONE, EVERY SINGLE PERSON I have ever known in our years in the military has either been scared or has wanted to come home when they were away. Luckily, most people have enough sense to see that they have a responsibility and a DUTY to stay put and finish out their tour and enlistment.

If we were talking about kids that had been drafted I might have more sympathy; as it is we're talking about sane and rational young men and women who CHOSE to sign up.