It is sad that you had to write this.  It is even sadder that they are jumping for joy at every death.

And then they proclaim to support the troops? Only when they die I guess.

How gruesome and grotesque!

Makes Them seem like ghouls.

i didnt see this til id already posted the following at the other blog.  it's perhaps even more germane here:

where did anyone--but most especially mr herbert--advocate cutting and running in that article?  apparently the author has some experience as a soldier (although admittedly only working in intelligence and based in korea ).  i see no lack of support here for those members of the military who are actually doing their jobs at great risk to themselves.  i cant speak for dabe or mr herbert, but youre wrong to question my respect for or deep concerns about the troops who are doing their jobs with incredible bravery and dedication in iraq. 

if, in fact, your commander-in-chief and his advisers had spent less time indulging in manifest destiny fantasies rather than doing their jobs and letting the pentagon do its job, it's possible we wouldnt be having this discussion.  it's not that im not vitally aware that war is sometimes the only option, but more that ive seen the consequences of going to war overly hastily, discarding all other options in the process.  

Thank you for proving the point. Even in death you cant shake the shackles of your new slavery.

       funny I don't recall manifest destiny being said by any members of the administration? That must have also been the speech in which they outlined our plan to take over the Iraqi oil industry (resulting in out rock bottom gas prices), the plan to harvest the Iraqi people for their organs, and plunder the nation of it's wealth while declaring matrial law under a US governor for life. Oh wait none of that ever happened did it?

     Mr. Herbert (and the left) offer no alternatives besides the fielding of a fictional European army through belly groveling on our part (or Charlie Wrangell's moronic race-baiting draft proposals). Exactly how was Don Rumsfeld supposed to stop that bomber? Maybe if he had been in charge of the military for the last 30 years straight he could have stopped the ridiculous drawdown that left the Army without support troops? Then we wouldn't have to hire hordes of civilian locals to do the jobs that used to be done by soldiers but since he wasn't in charge then he has to work with what he has.

     Peope like Mr. Herbert who fought in wars that have zero resemblance to modern warfare are looking at the world through a lens which is no longer useful. Despite this they feel free to criticise in volumes while offering nothing sensible in the way of help. "Support" like that I can do with out.

Thanks for the comment though KB...

Precisely.

I am not disregarding them, I simply don't like that political assholes like this clown try and cover up their agenda by saying it is for these same families. This guy gives two small shits about you, me, or K. He hates the administration and i swilling to use any slime tactic necessary (to include pulling out of a country we have bled for) in order to try and advance the agenda that failed in the last election. He can can be anti-administration all he likes and get no complaints from me, but it is disingenous to disguise it at compassion for the troops or their families.

His version of compassion, "Your husband/brother/sister/wife/duaghter/son is died for nothing (well except for the freedom of the Iraqi people from a brutal murdering dictator), so lets leave the place they spilled their blood, sweat, and tears and make sure it counted for less than nothing in the long run. How can I make it work better? Oh I have nothing to say about that, I just like running my mouth and pretending that I care about the families of soldiers."

id probably be wiser to let this go than to tread into territory about which you feel so strongly, but im very truly wondering what it is that im missing here. 

ive just finished re-reading his article for the seventh time since it was posted in ju. like a good number of other americans, herbert is clearly unhappy with the way the war has been prosecuted.  but that--as you pointed out--is his right.

i dont get a sense that his compassion is insincere.  like so many of us who were alive during the vietnam era, he lost friends to the war.  because he was in the service then, there was an even greater chance of that happening.  his reaction--to feel somehow guilty that he wasnt serving in vietnam--is understandable, not at all uncommon and there's no reason to dismiss it out of hand, if at all.  he certainly has a basis for identifying with the friends and families who are suffering similar losses now.   (i was truly mystified by your abrupt dismissal of his serivce as being irrelevant btw)

what's confusing me, more than anything, is i dont see him calling for the us to give up and go home--even by implication.  maybe im currently in the throes of mid-to-late onset senility (if not permanently residing there ).  what i do see is this:

We have completely lost our way with this fiasco in Iraq. The president seems almost perversely out of touch. "The idea of democracy taking hold in what was a place of tyranny and hatred and destruction is such a hopeful moment in the history of the world," he said this week.

The truth, of course, is that we can't even secure the road to the Baghdad airport, or protect our own troops lining up for lunch inside a military compound. The coming elections are a slapstick version of democracy. International observers won't even go to Iraq to monitor the elections because it's too dangerous. They'll be watching, as if through binoculars, from Jordan.

Nobody has a plan. We don't have enough troops to secure the country, and the Iraqi forces have shown neither the strength nor the will to do it themselves. Election officials are being murdered in the streets. The insurgency is growing in both strength and sophistication. At least three more marines and one soldier were killed yesterday, ensuring the grimmest of holidays for their families and loved ones.

One of the things that President Bush might consider while on his current vacation is whether there are any limits to the price our troops should be prepared to pay for his misadventure in Iraq, or whether the suffering and dying will simply go on indefinitely

a fair number of our fellow citizens see it that way.  some of what he's saying--about the road to the airport, the murdered election officials, and the iraqi security forces--isnt reasonably disputable.  his reaction to the president's assessment may not be the kindest interpretation but his concern isnt without basis.  whether you agree with the president or not, that particular statement is incredibly overly optimistic.  i may have my head up my ass as well, but even if that's the case, there is at least an even chance the upcoming election is going to be a fiasco.

while the last paragraph may seem to hint at withdrawing quickly, it can as easily--and reasonably--be construed as a call for bush to give more consideration to those former generals whose advice was (as reported by several sources, all of whom were present at one point or another when the war was being planned) cavalierly ignored.

i'd also like to explain my characterization of the administration engaging in what i unwisely described as a policy of 'manifest destiny'.  i wasnt alluding to oil or territory but a pervasive 'imperialist' attitude that  has been emphatically advanced  by the project for a new american century and appears to have been equally enthusiastically adopted by the administration.  

Sure you can, just lets not disguise it. Herbert is an outspoken critic of the administration on the war issue and thats fine. MY opinion of people giving opinions with zero solutions though is that they should shut the fuck up after expressing it a couple of times. After that it is just kvetching for the sake of kvetching or in this case for the sake of your other political goals and that is plain dishonest and in fact dishonorable. I do not "dismiss" his service but I take issue with the fact that he is casting us in his mold. As draftees, the unwilling, and the disenfranchised. That war is long gone and this war is totally different and is being fought entirely by volunteers.

Agreed but they can certainly realize that they don't know! This is why I don't expect you all to listen as I hold forth on the evils of investment banking. I know that I don't know. Anything I say about the evils of banking would be so much piss into the wind. This becomes triple when I can't be bothered to do more than moan about it without even offering a legitimate answer. Have an opinion all you like but if you walk it out in public constantly without figuring out a solution? welll then you are just contributing to the problem. Xtine I submit that if you put this into the microcosm of a mother-in-law constantly bitching about how you treat your spouse and clean your home while she herself doesn't have one bit of advice otherwise that you would be right there with me. Herbert is a nagging mother-in-law on this one.